Two weeks ago I discussed East Maine School District #63 Board’s involvement or lack of involvement in Dr. Clay’s groundbreaking Internet blog site discussions. This week, I have chosen to write this “update” post because the information generated by the dialogue from the original post, Spain is a great place for a vacation. Hope our lucky administrators had good ones clearly needed clarification and additional reader input.
Upon review of the “messages”, it occurred to me that a point-by-point rebuttal of Dr. Clay’s assertions would not serve the community’s interest, nor would it move us any closer to continuous open dialogue between EMSD#63 and this or any other blog site. So, I've chosen to direct my comments in this post to two items of disagreement and to one item to which we can agree upon.
I disagree with Dr. Clay when he states that my main concern is “to convince the public that the Board of Education wastes money in order to prevent any future referendums from being passed.” I do not have to convince the public of anything. The District and the School Board are doing a fine job already. Let me refer all readers to a prior blog posting: Another $735,000 Down the Toilet and let’s not forget the Gym Equipment scandal under the prior administration.
I disagree with Dr. Clay when he cites my statement “referring to a $5,000 expenditure out of a $40 million+ budget from four years ago as a ‘boondoggle’, as an exaggeration.” Dr. Clay’s flippant attitude when referring to any non-required expenditure of our hard earned tax dollars, no matter how insignificant he may believe those dollars to be, or no matter when they were spent following the last referendum, is an insult to every EMSD#63 taxpayer now struggling to keep his or her head above water in these difficult times.
And quite frankly, an immediate and public apology in writing to all EMSD#63 taxpayers is in order!
I agree with Dr. Clay when he publically and forthrightly stated in his June 15, 2010 2:52 PM “message”: “Also Mr. Butterly, you really seem to be missing the point that immersion is considered the most effective way of learning a language.”
By doing so, Dr. Clay has finally, openly, and in my opinion, effectively, put an end to the costly lie that English As a Second Language ( ESL) is the most “effective” or “best practice” for teaching English to EMSD#63 non-English speaking students.
Finally, as part of my June 14, 2010 11:36 AM response “message” to Dr. Clay, I stated:
“Dr. Clay, I seriously doubt if your language skills progressed much beyond the useful phrase level in such short a time. I could be wrong. The important questions of course are: Did you continue your studies when you returned to the District? Under what conditions did you use your new language skills on behalf of District #63? How often?”
As a follow-up to that comment, I submitted a FOIA #100618-001 request to determine if Dr. Clay or Ms. Glickman continued their Spanish Language studies and if those studies where paid for by the taxpayers. The FOIA and response is presented below.
FOIA - 100618-001 Response EMail
Your comments?
10 comments:
I looked at the messages and I couldn't believe it. Clay really says that immersion was the best way to learn a langusge. So,is he going to have the courage to challenge your post? I doubt it!
Mr. Butterly,
Am I really the only one who sees the irony in your comments about the use of taxpayer money? My entire career has been in the public sector and I am very well aware, and respectful of the role and the burden on the taxpayers. Seriously, Mr. Butterly, more than a dozen FOIA requests in the past month and literally hundreds and hundreds of them since 2004 and you accuse me of not respecting the hard working taxpayers of this district? Who do you think spends countless hours responding to your requests? Yes, the very administrators who you accuse of misusing time and money. The members of this community need to understand how much time and money you have cost this district with your constant onslaught of FOIA requests.
As for my comments about the cost of the immersion program, I stand by all of them. It is important to put into perspective the amount that was spent. It is not out of range of countless other types of professional development that schools and businesses utilize. Plain and simple, Mr. Butterly, it isn’t the boondoggle you have tried so hard to portray it as. Certainly people can debate whether helping our principals learn a language spoken by a quarter of our population in District 63 is a worthwhile endeavor or not. I believe it is and have no trouble discussing that with anyone. Saying that it was an outrageous expense is nothing short of gross exaggeration.
Immersion programs are considered one of the most efficient ways of learning conversational skills in a foreign language. That however is not the same thing as a child attempting to be educated in a language other than his/her native language. Learning to read, write, grasp science concepts, mathematics, etc. is complicated for any learner and when you try to do that while also struggling to learn the language, the complexity grows exponentially. That is the reason for English as a Second Language and for Bilingual Education, two very effective, very worthwhile, and incidentally, required by law, instructional programs. Our children learn their conversational skills in English through immersion by virtue of living in and attending school in an English speaking country. Our ESL\Bilingual teachers help make it possible for them to access an education.
Again, I will reiterate my invitation to have you come in and talk to me about your concerns. Making inaccurate comments about the role of English as a Second Language classes is a disservice to your readers, our community, and especially to our students. And, to save you from accusing me of being defensive, please let me say, yes I am defensive. I am defensive of the children of this school district, the hard working educators who teach them, and of the families who work so hard to help their children achieve. I couldn’t be more proud of our students, our staff members who are dedicated to helping them, or of this school district. That is why I choose to engage in this dialogue with you and your readers.
Sincerely,
Dr. Scott Clay
Superintendent
Dr. Clay-
You should then define the current financial crisis the district is facing with Ameresco and Wight & Co. with the security entrances currently being constructed at the four schools in EMSD 63.
A contact was negotiated then "amended" in January 2010 and the word on the streets is that another burdensome cost to the taxpayers may occur once again - two retention ponds that may need to be constructed at two district schools (Mark Twain and Washington) that were oversights by the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District who granted the permits for all four construction sites.
Who's responsible and thus accountable for this financial burden? The Board President of EMSD 63 addressed this very issue at last Wednesday's meeting (July 7, 2010) without any answers as to who will foot the bill. The Director of Operations and Maintenance of EMSD 63 clearly referenced that both Ameresco and Wight & Co. were silent at a very recent meeting with himself and the MWRD.
A very large bond issuance was made for this project in what appeared initially to have been a very cost effective and thus beneficial project moneywise to enhance security at these four schools within the district; only now we may see most if not all of these monies with the bond may be utilized to the tilt.
We, the taxpayers of this district are funding these projects directly as well as all the paying the workers our districts' salaries and benefits, let alone all of the operations and supplies to turn on the lights and run our schools everyday. As Superintendent you represent and in that are working for us Dr. Clay as for every dime spent you and your administrative staff must be held accountable, all inclusive of the previous Superintendent who initiated these four projects who continued to mentor you after her" returement."
We want answers and explanations; for those who cannot make your regularly scheduled meetings due to time and scheduling conflicts, our only resource is a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). All unless you start posting more documented information on the districts website (www.emsd63.org) or via your new tool in the form of a blog which you stated at the July 7, 2010, meeting has received 300 hits. This would be a great compromise to save the supposed great deal of money you've referenced that a board member stated could pay for two additional employees with full benefits.
Maybe hiring someone to represent the district in the form of a Public Information Officer such as that is being done at local school Districts 207 and 219? That is the only logical step to take at this point.
Regards,
Eric M. Poders
Publisher, The North Shore Voice
Human Rights Activist
Eric, obviously you heard me speak about all of the information you are referencing in a public meeting of the Board of Education on this past Wednesday night. That hardly seems like "hiding information." In addition to the meeting, my comments will be documented in the official minutes of the meeting and posted on the website. Again, open to all who care to read it. You also know from my remarks, that I had just met with Ameresco the week before where I learned the details of this situation. Wednesday night's meeting was the first opportunity to fill them in on what I had learned and I did so publicly. You also heard me state that all indications are that Amersco and Wight will be covering the cost of the retention ponds, but have not yet committed to that.
In light of all that, I'm not sure what your specific questions are about this issue. Eric, you have access to my blog. Why not use it to ask the questions you want answered? I will be posting information about the retention ponds once I have the information I need. Having me guess the future of the situation in a blog or anywhere else won't serve anyone's interests.
It's time for both you and Mr. Butterly to accept that I'm not shying away from public conversation with you or anyone else. Ask your questions in a direct manner and you'll get my honest and direct reply. Plain and simple.
Dr. Clay,
Chicago to Granada is around 4,500+ miles flying the great circle route.
If I have the story somewhat correct, this is what I believe. EMSD#63 couldn’t find enough “qualified” individuals at a local job fair, so two of our finest traveled all the way to Spain last April to fill ten recently opened ESL/Bi-Lingual and Spanish teaching positions. In the end, six “highly qualified” Spaniards were hired leaving four remaining positions to be filled by other “highly qualified” individuals. And those positions have now been filled.
US Education schools graduate thousands of “highly qualified” ESL/Bi-Lingual Spanish teachers each year.
Now I would have assumed, that Ms. Glickman and Ms. Centanni, when unable to find “highly qualified” candidates via local job fair, conducted a national search.
I would have also assumed Ms. Glickman and Ms. Centanni, failing that search, contacted authorities in the Mexican Government in their attempt to fill those positions. Given an opportunity, I am sure the Government of Mexico would have been glad to meet the Spanish offer.
Mexico also graduates highly qualfied teachers; many Spanish/English speakers. I suspect a goodly number of them would have loved to come to EMSD#63 to energetically and enthusiasticly work to teach English to their fellow countrymen living the “American Dream” and Spanish to district English-speaking students. . Mexico is our next door neighbor, NAFTA partner and friend.
Besides, Mexico City was only 1,675+ miles away.
Unfortunately, based on statements by the District, those assumptions would have been wrong. It appears at this moment, no major effort was made to initially find non-local candidates nationally, from Mexican or other North, South or Central American sources in an attempt to find culturally and dialectically compatible teachers.
I had dinner the other night with a highly qualified and simpatico ESL/Spanish teacher and her husband in Racine, Wisconsin. My friend’s wife is a devout Packer fan and graduate of the University of Madrid with 12 years of teaching experience. Living and learning her craft in Spain gave her a perspective and an opinion I had to honor. My friends reviewed all of the published comments to date from both of our blog-sites including the video of the July 7th Board presentation. Based on her first-hand knowledge and experiences of Spanish life and culture, and real-world teaching experience with children from Mexico, and Central and South America, she thought we were crazy.
Dr. Clay, Ms. Glickman and Ms. Centanni believe your new hires will experience “culture shock.”
Spaniards are phonetically and culturally different from the immigrants they will serve. Just one of the many speech differences that students will have to contend with is the fact that the subject pronoun “vosotros” doesn’t exist outside of Spain. As far as our immigrant population is concerned, in their home countries, Spaniards are not always looked on sympathetically. There are historical problems revolving around the subjects of perceived arrogance, class and trust that date back centuries. Your students and their non-college-educated parents from Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Equator, Puerto Rico and Mexico, etc. very likely will not have the same warm and fuzzy feelings regarding Spain or her teachers that you have. Our local McDonald’s restaurants have over the last decade made a concerted effort to hire our newest Spanish-speaking immigrants. Over the years, I’ve come to know some of them and their families.
I think your new employees from Spain are going to be in for quite a cultural shock indeed.
Lastly, husbanding money Dr. Clay, is not the same as hoarding one’s money. In this case, it’s about protecting and maximizing the District’s revenue and making right spending choices. Sometimes, walking away from a freebee is the right choice. Remember the costly free Gym Equipment debacle.
As far as I’m concerned Dr. Clay, the die is cast, the money’s spent.
Mr. Butterly,
We accessed an existing program through the Illinois State Board of Education to solve a staffing problem free of charge. ISBE does not have a similar program with Mexico or other Latin American countries. We have no authority or resources to work directly with the government of Mexico to set up a brand new program. The exchange program with Spain has been working successfully for at least 20 years. It is praised highly by the school districts we contacted who have used it, and believe it or not, they also serve populations from Latin America rather than Spain.
I believe it is now in the best interest of our district that I restrict my responses to your blog. Originally, I believed that addressing your individual concerns would open up a valuable dialogue; however I now believe that such a discussion has limited value. Some of your comments are so far removed from the topic (NAFTA, mileage to Mexico City, setting up a program directly with the Mexican government, Spanish colonialism) that it is clear that you have little interest in understanding. You will use any opportunity, perceived or actual, to criticize this district.
My goal, Mr. Butterly, has always been to foster a positive, supportive learning environment, for both our students and our staff. We continue to grow as a community because of our common commitment to learning. My blog, at emsd63.edublogs.org, will continue to be used to communicate and hopefully interact with our community. You and your readers are welcome to address your concerns there or with me in person.
Sincerely,
Dr. Scott Clay
Superintendent
Mr. Butterly and Dr. Clay,
Dr. Clay, I have been following this site for the last couple of months. I have found the dialogue amusing and sometimes informative. I have never seen a local school superintendent take on a "pest" before as you have. As they say, it was fun while it lasted.
Mr. Butterly, when you wrote "What was the EMSD#63 Board Thinking?" you wrote “East Maine School District #63 (EMSD#63) Superintendent, Dr. Scott Clay and the EMSD#63 School Board, led by long time Board President Ms. Jane Wojtkiewicz…” was “either the dumbest School System leaders I’ve ever met or the most brilliant…” in choosing to directly respond on the Internet. What is your opinion now?
I guess Clay couldn't stand the heat. Went back to the comfort and security of a blog site he can control. Too bad! Dumb or brilliant are not words I would use to describe a twice retreating opponent.
Dr. Scott Clay, Superintendent
July 22, 2010 2:31 PM wrote:
"I believe it is now in the best interest of our district that I restrict my responses to your blog. Originally, I believed that addressing your individual concerns would open up a valuable dialogue; however I now believe that such a discussion has limited value...."
"... My blog, at emsd63.edublogs.org, will continue to be used to communicate and hopefully interact with our community. You and your readers are welcome to address your concerns there or with me in person."
Seems to me like he was quitting!
I have seen many people like Mrs. Buttersworth who spend their lives fantasizing that they are doing something for the public good when in reality everyone looks at them like the joke they are. They dream that they are MAKING a difference when all they are really making is an ass of themselves.
You need to get back on your meds Mrs Buttersworth.
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